Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: This episode discusses the sensitive topic of child loss, which may be distressing for some listeners.
One of the greatest human tragedies is the sudden, unexpected death of a child.
When that death remains unexplained, it is even more devastating for the parents, the family and society at large.
Recently, over a couple of days, I had the absolute privilege of sitting down with Brad and Felicity plain to record their stories individually.
In our previous episode, we had the honour of hearing Brad's heart wrenching story about the sudden and unexpected loss of his daughter, Grace.
Brad shared the profound impact this loss has had on his life and the ways he's found to cope and honour Grace's memory.
Today, we continue our exploration of this deeply emotional journey with Brad's wife, Felicity.
She'll offer her own perspective on navigating the grief of losing a child, the personal and collective challenges she and Brad have faced and the ways they have supported each other through this unimaginable experience.
This episode is a powerful continuation of our conversation, providing further insight into resilience, hope and the enduring strength of love.
My name is John Littlefair and I'm honoured to. To bring you this episode of never just a dog.
Felicity, in the first episode, your hubby Brad, told me his side of how you met and now it's your turn to share your version of the story, which I'm so keen to hear.
[00:01:45] Speaker B: Yeah, well, I had just come out of a five year relationship. My girlfriend and I were going to. We'd already booked to go overseas for a year. We were going for a working holiday. Like, we booked it twelve months out. That's right. Cause I met Brad in the January, we were going in the December.
So, friends of ours, they were a couple, so I didn't know Brad, but my friend who brought me into the netball team, she knew this couple and they needed a guy and a girl to replace them in the netball team. So Brad was brought in by his mate and I was brought in by my friend and that's how we both joined the netball team. And then I.
To be honest, I think he knows this. When he rang me, I couldn't remember who, which one of the team he was, so I had to ring my friend and go, Brad, is he the centre player?
[00:02:37] Speaker A: He's the centre, yeah.
[00:02:40] Speaker B: And he was actually the only guy who used to throw the ball to me. The others used to just throw the ball to each of the boys and not the girls, which they were. You know, they'd get it down each third so they'd get it right. Down there really fast. But the girls often didn't get their hands on the ball. But Brad was the one who always would throw the ball.
[00:02:59] Speaker A: To me, Brad had a bigger player.
[00:03:00] Speaker B: Than he's throwing the ball to you. So when I worked out he was the center, I was like, oh, yeah, okay, that's Brad.
[00:03:06] Speaker A: How long after meeting him did you get married?
[00:03:08] Speaker B: Oh, seven years. I went overseas for a year, so at the end of that year, so we were always just friends. I don't know if he told you the nab story.
[00:03:18] Speaker A: No. But please do love to hear this story.
[00:03:22] Speaker B: So I suppose I'd just come out of this big relationship. I didn't want to get into another serious relationship, and I knew I was going overseas, so I thought, no, I'm just having fun. I'm not gonna get into a relationship. So Brad made his feelings known quite early.
But I sort of said, look, I love you as a friend, but I know I'm going overseas, so I don't know where that's gonna take me. Don't know how long I'm gonna go overseas. So how about we just maintain friends? All my friends and family thought we were together, all his friends and family thought we were together. And I kept saying, no, no, he's not a boyfriend. He's just a friend. So, unbeknownst to me, my dad used to call him nab, which was not a boyfriend. So then I. When I came back from overseas, he became a boyfriend after a long time, and then he became. He still stayed a nab, so he was now a boyfriend. And then when we got married, he upgraded to a naa, now a husband.
[00:04:23] Speaker A: That is so cool. A nab and now a naa. How long after you got married did you have your son?
[00:04:30] Speaker B: Yeah, Jack. We had. So we got married in 2007, and the November of 2008, we had Jack. Yep.
[00:04:39] Speaker A: Was he a good boy when he was really, like, a little, tiny?
[00:04:44] Speaker B: Jack was a hard baby, but I think because he was our first as well. You know, as much as you feel prepared to become a parent, I don't know if you know what you're gonna do until you're a parent. And the sleep deprivation was massive. Cause he never slept.
He was up all the time. And I can't remember really getting much sleep at all. But then we got a sleep nanny in and paid, like, $750 for this sleep nanny. She comes and stays the night, so a lot of it is she feels that she can just get you into habits, into getting them into sleep. And we failed that. And then we went to Nagala that they try to do sort of a version of controlled crying. I suppose probably a lot of what we were doing was annoying the crap out of him, probably because, you know, we were suggested to do white noise and all these other things.
He's got amazing hearing now, so I sort of think if he had white noise, that might have really annoyed him. Yeah, it's really interesting. I think.
I think there was a combination of so many things going on and, you know, just trying to listen to other people's advice and not listening to your own gut. And I think when you have a second child, you sort of take on advice a bit differently.
[00:06:11] Speaker A: Tell me about Grace. What was she like as a really little bub you're happy to see?
[00:06:15] Speaker B: So she. Yeah, absolutely. She was the total opposite to Jack. Jack was a gorgeous baby. I can't, you know, can't say that he wasn't. He was beautiful baby. But I suppose I was more confident in being a mum and I'd had more experience. I was in a better place, I think, just with my confidence in parenting.
And she was so wanted. Like, so wanted, and so was Jack. Don't give me wrong, but she was really. We tried for a long time to have grace, so she was super, super wanted. There's an eight year age difference between Jack and Grace.
[00:06:57] Speaker A: That must have been amazing when you one found out that you were pregnant and then did you know that you were having a girl before?
[00:07:03] Speaker B: We did. You did.
[00:07:04] Speaker A: You named her before? Or. How did you settle on the name Grace? Because it's such a beautiful name.
[00:07:09] Speaker B: It is such a beautiful name. We had a shortlist, but we both agreed. I don't know. I don't know how we got to that, but we both had a shortlist and I think that was the name we just both resonated with. So we both went, yeah, Grace, how.
[00:07:25] Speaker A: Did she impact your life? Just joy being you, being a mum and a woman and having a little.
[00:07:30] Speaker B: Girl, it was just. I know it sounds so cliche, but I felt complete. Like, I felt I had my little family, I had my son, my daughter.
She was an easy baby. And when Grace came along and she hit all the milestones so easily, so, yeah, a lot of joy.
[00:07:51] Speaker A: And tragically, you lost grace. How many years ago was that?
[00:07:56] Speaker B: In November. This year it'll be six years.
[00:07:59] Speaker A: Wow. Six years.
Would you like to walk me through that day?
[00:08:04] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:08:04] Speaker A: So tell me what happened.
[00:08:06] Speaker B: Well, that day was like any other day. And I suppose that's why it was so shocking to all of us, because there was no indication that she was unwell at all. She was fine. I'd gone to the hairdresser that morning. She'd come with me. We came home. She had her normal sleep. My brother, my youngest brother was getting married on the Friday, so that was a Saturday.
And I was doing the wedding cake. So she went down for her normal nap. And I left her with Brad to go and get all the last minute stuff that I needed for the wedding cake.
And I came back and she'd been eating twisties on the couch with Brad when she woke up. And then he was going out for a boys night. So, yeah, it was just a normal night. So, you know, dinner was normal. Bath time. We always played Chasey before we went to bed, which I know. I don't know, sounds mad now. So I think revving up the kids. But, you know, it was the same routine every night. She would huff and puff and then hide behind the same spot every time. And, you know, you'd have to pretend that he didn't see her. Everything was normal. You know, we did have stories. Bedtime, she said not to Jack. I took her in for a bottle. She didn't want a bottle. But that wasn't unusual because sometimes she was getting to an age. She didn't need a bottle. It was just more of a comfort thing because she was two and a half. She sort of pushed the bottle away and she, you know, she was being a bit of a monkey, but she could be a little bit of a monkey and not want to go to sleep. But she did go to sleep. And then I watched a movie with Jack, so everything was fine. So he went to bed about, oh, it must be about 930, 10:00 on a Saturday night.
And I walked past her room and I did hear it sort of. It sounded like a snuffly noise.
But I sort of stopped at the door and she sounded okay. So then I put Jack to bed, and it wasn't until I got into bed and I turned the baby monitor on, because we had a baby monitor in our bedroom.
And I heard just an unusual noise. And when I ran into her room, she was having a seizure. And she was non unresponsive at that time, so it looked like she'd vomited.
So I don't cope very well in these sorts of situations. So I was sort of screaming and yelling and.
Yeah, all that was going through my head was, you know, the DrABC. But it was airways, airways, airways, airways. Because I could see she'd vomited.
So I think I ran into Jack's room to wake him up to say, I'm going to call the ambulance. You've got to be by the front door. Can you let the ambulance in when they come? Poor kid. He was only, like, nine years of age. It must have been so scary for him.
And then I rang my sister, thinking, well, if the ambulance comes, someone has to be with Jack. And she lives at the road. So I rang her and she was at my brother's, who was south of the river.
Anyway, managed to ring the ambulance. They were on the line and all of a sudden my mum turned up and my sister must have rung my mum. She lives in Doubleview, so she's pretty close. She's pretty, yeah. She was like an angel. She's appeared in my life like that a few times. So, yeah, basically, you know, when you call the ambulance and they go through every process, they sort of speak you through it. She was non responsive. She wasn't breathing. So when mum walked in, that was at the point that the ambulance said, okay, you've got to start CPR.
And my mum was amazing and she started CPR.
Then the ambulance arrived. So they had three. They had a car that comes, which I now know is usually a doctor who comes in the car by themselves.
And then they had two ambulances dispatched. So we had three crew there.
And because her room's quite. It's just a normal sized bedroom, so I had to leave the room. They sort of needed the space to work on her and. Yeah. So for about. I'm not too sure exactly the amount of time, because a lot of that's sort of just blurry that night. But I believe it was at least half an hour that probably worked on her in the room. And then all of a sudden, one of them just said, we need to take her to the hospital.
So that gave me hope that, you know, okay, great, you're going to the hospital. That means things are good, you know. You know, make her okay.
They were still working on her, so they said, we'll take her in this ambulance. You follow in this ambulance. So I wasn't with her in the ambulance because they were working on her. So I rode in the ambulance. I was following with this gorgeous paramedic who was lovely. I don't even know his name.
I can visualize what he looks like, but he was trying to be as reassuring as possible and telling me that, you know, the best team of paramedics in that crew were with her. And if anyone could do anything, they would.
And yeah. So I got there. And somewhere in that I must have rung Brad. But I cannot remember to this day ringing Brad. So he was at a boys weekend, which was planned and normal. And I know he feels immense guilt for not being there. But it could have been any night.
There was no indication she would have been. That she was unwell. Had there been, he probably would have stayed home. And that's what I have to always say to him. Like neither of us knew. Had she been unwell, I wouldn't have put her to bed. Or I would have been in her room. I feel guilty because she died on my watch.
So both of us carry a really heavy level of guilt. You know, had I. When I heard that snuffly noise, I should have gone in. You know, I replay that over and over and over again.
[00:14:21] Speaker A: So you got to the hospital and Grace was still unresponsive.
[00:14:26] Speaker B: Yeah. Yep. So. And again, my beautiful angel mum just appeared.
[00:14:31] Speaker A: What's your mum's name?
[00:14:32] Speaker B: Judith.
[00:14:33] Speaker A: Judith. She still lives in double view.
[00:14:34] Speaker B: Yeah, she does.
[00:14:35] Speaker A: Hey, Judith, if you're listening.
Angela.
[00:14:39] Speaker B: Yeah. Cause Brad hadn't got there yet. So, again, a lot of this is really sketchy in my memory. So I'm sort of trying to remember parts. Parts stand out.
And I know I could see her. She was obviously in the emergency department.
Tubes everywhere.
And mum was with me. And then they had said, look, she hasn't had a heartbeat for a very long time.
And they were going to call. Call it. And then Brad walked in and Brad said, no, keep working on her.
And they had stopped at this point.
And one of the nurses was amazing because they must have been exhausted. And she said, okay. And she started compressions again. And then Grace's heart started.
So gave us hope that, you know, she's come back to life.
I don't know what was going through Brad's mind, but I thought, oh, my God, she's breathing. She's all right.
But she wasn't all right. Yeah, but I'm so glad Brad said that at that time. Because it just gave us more time with her.
They then took her into ICU.
And she was on a ventilator. And basically that was breathing for her.
And then we were told that although her heart was working, that's usually the last organ to give up. And that will often go for quite a while. But there was no other signs of life in terms of that she was brain dead.
So the hospital was amazing. They were so beautiful to us. And they just sort of said, you know, you can have that room and, you know, you can be with her as long as you need.
Is there anyone you want to ring? And so my beautiful mum again, I think she rang everybody. And that must have been so excruciating hard for her.
And, yeah, all my siblings came, and Brad's mum and sister and his dad. So, you know, a lot of them got the call at 02:00 in the morning and they just all appeared.
[00:17:07] Speaker A: So you stayed a while in the hospital and then made your way home?
[00:17:11] Speaker B: We were there for two days in the end, so it was Saturday night when we were admitted, and then we stayed all Sunday.
And it wasn't until the Monday that. And it was Monday, sort of late Monday.
I think there was still that level of hope. And you see those movies on tv that, you know, these people all of a sudden come out of these comas or. So there was always that level.
Maybe they're wrong, you know, maybe she's gonna make it.
So I wanted them to be really, really sure and keep repeating tests. And they did. They were amazing. They kept on doing that.
And then we had the organ donation team came in to see if we wanted to donate Grace's organs.
And that was really hard because I always thought, well, you never think you're going to bury your children, but I always thought, if it was Brad or me, of course we'll donate anything.
But it's really different when you're in that sort of situation. You sort of thought, oh, I don't know if I want to give parts of her away.
But we decided, look, if there was anything that would make someone else's life better, we would. But unfortunately, just because of the trauma she'd been through, they thought that maybe her kidneys would be able to be salvaged. I don't know if that's the right term, but unfortunately, she wasn't. Her organs weren't viable to be donated.
And we were told, look, her heart could still keep going for days or weeks, but she would just go into complete organ failure. So every organ would shut down until she would die.
So we made a really, really hard decision because we thought we didn't want her to suffer anymore. We didn't know, but we knew there was no brain activity. Like that was very clear to us.
So we made the really, really hard decision to take her off life support.
And they talked us through that and they said what would happen? And that, you know, basically her heart would stop as soon as she was off life support and then she would pass away. So, yeah, they were amazing. In the lead up to that, they did so many memory making things with us.
I didn't even know you could do it. But they had this beautiful organization. They're all volunteer photographers. So professional photographers who volunteer their time to come and they do all these photographs for free for you.
Special, special people to do that sort of work. And they're called heartfelt. So they came and this beautiful lady came and she took photos of grace for us and photos of us holding grace and. Yeah, just of her hands and her feet.
The ones of her hands in our hands, I think are really precious.
[00:20:17] Speaker A: So what was the time immediately after? Was it such a blur? An emotional, heartbroken blur?
[00:20:25] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, Brad and I didn't want to sleep because we knew our last moments with her. I. So I think we made a pact that would give each other half an hour rest, but we would be with her, so we'd never let go of her. And I think we. Yeah, we sort of said, okay, we set the timer half an hour. One of us would stay awake, the rest give her half an hour sleep. We'd wake the other arm up and tag team like that.
Yeah. So it was about sort of nearly three days without any sleep, so.
And that whole time our family stayed. It was amazing. So the staff at PCH gave up their staff room because I'm one of seven kids with all my siblings and my nieces and their. So, yeah, they were totally amazing. So.
But the staff were amazing. They gave up their lounge for my whole family to be there, which is so generous.
[00:21:27] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:21:27] Speaker B: So generous.
And pretty much my family stayed the whole time.
[00:21:33] Speaker A: How do you survive the loss of a child?
[00:21:37] Speaker B: I think you just make it minute by minute through each day.
Jack was a huge force, I think, for Brad and I, that we knew that we had to pull through for Jack.
Yeah. I think if it hadn't been for Jack, I don't know if I would have.
But he was my driving force.
I had to get out of bed every day because I had Jack.
Yeah.
[00:22:06] Speaker A: Or you would have just stayed in bed?
[00:22:08] Speaker B: Oh, absolutely, yeah. Or worse.
Yeah.
[00:22:12] Speaker A: Did you have thoughts of.
[00:22:13] Speaker B: Absolutely? Yep. Many times. Yeah. But I thought, gosh, Jack's life's already stuffed up. I don't want to.
I don't want him to lose a mum as well.
[00:22:28] Speaker A: Did you have initial counselling and therapy?
[00:22:31] Speaker B: Yeah. It wasn't initially. I think.
I think, you know, you've got so much to organise with funerals and it was Jack's 10th birthday coming up on the 28 November. Grace passed away on the 12 November and I just. I don't know. But it was so important for me that her funeral and his birthday were not on the same day. Just so important. And I really, you know, ten was such a big number. You know, it's double digits. And we'd been so excited about him celebrating that. And it was still important. It was really important for him, important for you all. All of us. But so bittersweet because Grace wasn't there. And so soon after, you know, it was. Yeah. Hard.
I think we just delved into planning this funeral.
I think that was a focus.
Yeah. It took a lot of energy.
[00:23:35] Speaker A: You have Grace's funeral. You and your family are surrounded by so many people then they all have to go back to their own lives.
Now, I say this with the utmost respect for everyone listening, with what I've experienced, with the closest people in my life. Sometimes the lowest point comes a while later.
Is this what you experienced yourself?
[00:24:00] Speaker B: Yeah. And I can remember at six months, probably was six months post was my lowest. And I think it was for those reasons that.
Not that I think people forget, but I think it's exactly what you said. People have to go back to their normal lives. And my world had been obliterated completely and there was no normal anymore. There was a new normal that I didn't want to face.
And I think at six months, the reality is she wasn't coming back.
So I think six months post, it was quiet. You know, I sort of had some amazing friends who were amazing in support.
But, yeah, I think that's when I felt my greatest low. Yeah.
[00:24:49] Speaker A: To have such a monumental loss of your daughter. How does this affect your marriage?
[00:24:55] Speaker B: I didn't think we were going to make it, to be honest, John. And I don't think Brad did either.
We were in survival mode. And I think that's the difference.
My brother died nine months later than Grace, but Brad was able to support me through that. And I think that was the difference. We couldn't support each other because we were both in the depths of grief. We had nothing more to give to each other. I think anything we had left was going to Jack. And we grieve so differently. And so I think that was the hardest part that I know now. A bit more about grief theory, but I'm a real intuitive griever, so I need to talk about it. I need to be surrounded by people. I need to. That's how I connect with the grief.
Whereas Brad was the polar opposite. He didn't want to talk about Grace. He didn't want photos. I can remember this one day and I'd gone out and bought these frames of 20 or 30 photos and I'd filled them all up without telling him of photos of our family, not all of just grace. And I had them on the dining room table and he came home and he just stared at these photos and went, what are you doing?
I was like, I need these. I need these up. I need her around me.
And he was the polar opposite. They just made him too sad.
So I had never thought of that because that wasn't my way of grieving, was that way. I didn't understand his way of grieving and he didn't probably understand mine. So it was a real delicate balance to try to understand each other and try to meet each other in the middle. You know, he didn't want to speak about her. And I did. You know, that was so hard.
[00:26:48] Speaker A: Did you seek help as a couple or individually with someone that was, in a sense, neutral from the connection that you both had with Grace?
[00:26:59] Speaker B: We were really, really lucky to connect in with red nose.
So Brad actually rang their bereavement support line because I think he was worried about me.
And they let him know about their counselling service and that they specialise in child loss and grief, which was so amazing. We were lucky enough to meet our beautiful collar, St. Clair.
So we initially elected to have counselling together. So that's what we thought we needed because we knew that we weren't on the same page and we weren't able to be there for each other. And, you know, I think, well, I know I can't speak for Brad, but I know in my mind, I thought, he's the closest person in my life.
He's the one who should be there and be able to support me. But it wasn't until it was pointed out to me that's why he can't be. Cause he had that same connection with Grace.
Yeah, we saw Claire together and I think we saw her together once.
And she was such an amazing person and just said, would you guys like to do some separate sessions first and then maybe we'll come back together? And I think she identified. We really needed that individual therapy to be able to, I suppose, also grieve without feeling we were placing an extra burden on the other person and that we could be completely authentic and honest. And as he said, john, with someone who was out of the family, who. Who didn't have that emotional connection to grace, so could sit in that without us making her feel upset. And that was the best thing we ever did.
[00:28:43] Speaker A: And after doing those sessions, as time goes on, is that when you and Brad started to become closer again?
[00:28:51] Speaker B: Yeah. Cause I think we definitely started to understand one another. Clare was amazing in explaining things and why maybe Bradley was doing certain behaviours, like not talking or not, you know, that was his style of grief. Because to me, I thought he just wasn't grieving, he'd moved on.
And she explained, no, that's just got.
[00:29:13] Speaker A: To be careful of the silent ones.
[00:29:14] Speaker B: Yeah, that's right. So it was really. It was really good for her to be able to explain that. But what we also loved about Clare, because Brad. Brad loves his. A real instrumental griever and he loves to be able to have a plan and a focus and what can I do? How can I. Not that he can ever fix it, but what can I do to start helping his family?
So Claire gave us real strategy, so really good strategies. So let us know a couple.
[00:29:44] Speaker A: I'm really interested. Just the ones that really help move the dial slightly.
[00:29:50] Speaker B: Probably be one of the first and one of the ones that we still use to this day is out of a score of ten, you had to give a number of how your day was.
So ten being best day ever, one being worst day ever.
[00:30:10] Speaker A: I bet there are a few ones on.
[00:30:12] Speaker B: I think there were some zeros. I think we weren't allowed to go into the negative. Both had to agree on a number that if we were below that number, we just had to leave the other person alone. We weren't to push them on anything, to ask them lots of questions, to make them talk about anything. We just had to give them space.
So I think Brad's number was seven. If it was below seven, I had to give him space. Mine was five.
So we included Jack into this process as well because we understood that he was part of this process as well. So we explained the situation. And in the car, when I used to pick him up from school, the first question I used to say to Jack is, what's your number today? And then my niece used to come home with us as well. So Amy's part of this process too. So we used to talk about, what's your number today? So it's not how are you? Because I hated that question. I hated how are you? I still hate that question. And I'm really conscious of that. When I see other people who've just lost someone, I never ask them that because I feel it puts so much pressure on them to come up with an answer that might not be real. Because a lot of people don't want to sit in the uncomfortable of my life's really shit. Not many people want to hear that.
So you're sort of forced into saying, I'm fine, when you're not fine. I'm really conscious about not saying, how are you? And usually just saying, hey, John, I'm really glad to see you today.
Yeah. So we used to do the number thing and, you know, I can remember Jack and Amy. I'd say, what's your number? They would say their number. And Jack had me know his number was five too, that if it was below five or five or below. He just needed some space before he was ready to talk so you wouldn't push that person.
But then we sort of grew that narrative into, so tell me about where you lost that five in your day.
So you got five out of ten. What happened in your day to lose five marks?
So with Jack, that was awesome, because Jack would not often articulate a talk about Grace. So I know he was grieving, but he put it on other things in life that were happening and that was why he was sad. But it was giving him an outlet to be sad.
And then Brad and I, because I took a year off to manage my grief from work, there's just no way I could have gone back to work.
[00:32:46] Speaker A: What work were you doing?
[00:32:48] Speaker B: I was working for Tafe at the time, so I was head of programs for one of the portfolios, which was English as a second language.
And I'd worked for Tafe for nearly 20 years at that time. So I knew everybody and they were amazing. They, you know, a lot of my staff came to the funeral and, yeah, they were pretty amazing lecturing team. But there just was no way I could have gone back.
Early on with our beautiful St Clair, I came to a realisation that Jack had.
He was such a young kid. He'd gone through this traumatic event, but I didn't want him to have memories of just a sad mum all the time. You know, Mum was going to be sad.
I made this conscious effort that I needed to give. He still had a childhood and I didn't want to impact that any further with more crap from me of my projecting my own stuff on him.
So Clare and I decided we would have.
Would try to compartmentalise my grief as such. So when I was around Jack, I tried as much as possible to put on a front that, you know, and I didn't always succeed, but as much as possible, I tried to be the mum that he knew. And then when he went to school, that was my time to grief.
I think it's too hard to sit in the grief 24 hours a day. I mean, it's always with you, it's always in your mind.
But you need that break from grief, you need that distraction. You need something else to take you out of it for a little while and, you know, it comes in waves and it's out of your control sometimes, but definitely, yeah. So I can remember many times dropping him off at school and then just crying the whole way home and then, you know, spending the day crying. But then I'd look at my clock, oh, it's nearly time to pick jack up. Gotta pull myself together, put the makeup on, get back in the car and try to be mum for a little while.
[00:35:09] Speaker A: Did you find small moments of laughter in between?
And did you find yourself feeling guilty for this?
[00:35:17] Speaker B: I definitely feel that about the guilt of being happy and having joyful moments. And I would choose not to go to a lot of things.
A I don't think I was in the place to be them, but I thought, how can I be out drinking and having fun?
My daughter's dead, you know, how can I do that? And why should I be doing that? I suppose that's where Brad and I were very different in those initial stages. He was okay doing that. And I think for him he needed to do that. He needed to have that break from the grief and that was his way of doing it. But I didn't understand that. So I just thought he was going off and having a good time.
We were just so different. But I'm so grateful that it got explained to us that we needed different things.
[00:36:10] Speaker A: Tell me about the decision getting involved with red nose Australia.
[00:36:14] Speaker B: Well, we'd had this beautiful, beautiful care with Clare, so we had about eight months. And all red nose services are free and unlimited. So we were so lucky. We all got counselling. So Jack ended up having counselling as well. And I can remember saying to Clarendez, if there was any opportunity that I could pay back, you know, I would love that. And she just kept on saying, you'll find that, but in your own time, just give yourself space. Give yourself time, but you'll know when you're ready. And it must have been a few years later and I'd signed up to red nose for all their sort of publications. They do these beautiful. And they do so many things to honour memories and to keep forming connections, which is so important. So they do walk to remembers once a year. They do say their name day, which is so important.
And so I had already been going to those sorts of events and dragging Brad and Jack along with me. I don't know if they got as much out of it as I did.
And then I just got this email about that they were wanting these peer support volunteers who are sort of needing more on their 1300 line. So their 1300 line is 24 hours a day, seven days a week. And it's a bereavement support line for anyone who's had a baby or child loss from early pregnancy through to the loss of a child suddenly up to the age of 17.
And that's the line that Brad had called initially and then I had called afterwards. And it's all, I suppose, staffed by bereaved parents. So you know that when you ring that line, you've got someone else who just can sit in the mud with you and who can understand just and not want to try to fix it, just be there to support you through that. And that's really rare in our society, that you can have people that can sit in the mud.
So I've completely changed career now. So I've left TAFE and I'm working for red nose full time. So yes, I became a volunteer peer supporter on their phone line. And because I was working full time for TAFE at the time, I was just doing one shift to fortnight on a Saturday afternoon. It was about six hour shift on a Saturday.
And I just felt so privileged when I was able to take a phone call and support people in that moment.
Also knowing that just. There's not many other places in society where you can reach out and just, just be your most vulnerable and not have that judgment. So it's a really privileged position to be in. All my friends go, how could you do that? How can you sit in that?
But in some ways, and it sounds really weird, but it was cathartic and I never, ever really thought of my own grief. When I was sitting with others in their grief, it was all about them and still is. So I don't ever compare, I don't ever draw back to mine. And I think that's a really.
I think it's a really amazing thing to be able to do because I never thought in the early days I'd ever be able to do that. Because I can remember saying to Claire, how do you do this work? How do you sit in this grief day in and day out with all these people? I didn't know how she did it. And yet nearly six years down the track, I'm sort of doing the same similar work to Claire. So it's definitely helped my healing. Yes.
[00:40:03] Speaker A: Do you still have therapy?
[00:40:05] Speaker B: To this day, not ongoing, but yeah. Last year I went back and saw a psychologist, but I've become a lot more aware of when I need to seek assistance. And I don't see that as a bad thing at all. I see that as a really important thing for my own mental health.
[00:40:26] Speaker A: Felicity, please tell me about your dog, Maggie.
[00:40:30] Speaker B: So Maggie has been a lifesaver in our family. I think that's probably where I, happiness and joy re entered our house.
It was something that we'd been thinking of for a long while, but Maggie was really.
Initially we thought it was something that would be lovely for Jack, but I think it was important for all of us. So the biggest thing that was missing when we lost Grace was the noise and the fun.
And that's what Maggie's brought back into our lives. The noise, the fun, the cheekiness. She's pretty cheeky.
[00:41:11] Speaker A: The best dogs are.
[00:41:12] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, she's pretty cheeky.
[00:41:14] Speaker A: And what breed is Maggie?
[00:41:16] Speaker B: She's a multi shih tzu and a breed that Brad would never have. He always wanted a big dog, but it was a breed that Jack was really happy with, so. Cause initially we were thinking, this is a dog for Jack, this is gonna be his dog.
[00:41:33] Speaker A: Oh, there's no way that was ever.
[00:41:36] Speaker B: But, yeah, he was really happy with that sort of sized dog and really confident with that size dog. And he chose Maggie at the litter. And we had this beautiful breeder who really, really encouraged us to come and get to know Maggie from the day she was born and spend each weekend with her until we took her home. So that she got to know our smells and we got to know her a little bit more. So, yeah, she. Yeah, she has oodles of character and so much fun.
[00:42:09] Speaker A: Felicity, this has been such an incredibly humbling experience to chat with you.
I have one last question.
How do you, Brad and Jack celebrate Grace's life on special days on her.
[00:42:24] Speaker B: Birthday, she loved junk food like her father. She loved Cheetos.
We didn't give them to her a lot. They were special treats. She loved Fredo frogs, she loved watermelon and cucumber. They were favourites.
So, yeah, on her birthday, we always buy those foods and strawberries. So we always have that sort of our little ritual now. So we'll have a bag of Cheetos for Gracie, bag of Freddy frogs on her anniversary day. And we've always done something with water. She loved water. She loved the pool.
So we always do something of water. And luckily we live in Perth and beautiful by the ocean. So we always do a walk along west coast highway. We go to a beautiful cafe and have lunch and then we go down to the beach and we usually write her name in the sand. And we've created a really beautiful memorial garden for her and we try to add to that every birthday and anniversary. But this amazing swinging chair that says, come sit a while with me. Yeah, it's beautiful, John, you'll have to come and see it. And we've got a beautiful. We've got this guy in the Swan Valley who made us beautiful signs on Gracie's garden and butterflies have become really important to us.
My beautiful sister in law painted when Grace was born. This beautiful room sign, canvas sort of. That's her door sign that says grace on it and it's got a rose and a butterfly on it. And when Grace was going to bed, every ritual was. She just started it. She would touch the butterfly and just touch the butterfly before she went to bed. Every night, in the daytime as well for a day, sleeps.
So that was our ritual. Stopping at the door should touch the butterfly and should go in. So butterflies have become a really important symbol for us.
[00:44:31] Speaker A: For families navigating the immense pain of losing a child, support from organisations like Red Nose Australia can be a lifeline.
Rat and Felicity have experienced firsthand the compassionate care and essential resources provided by red Nose. Their 24/7 grief support and counselling have been a crucial support of comfort and strength during their darkest times.
Inspired by the support she received, Felicity now dedicates her work to red Nose, helping others who are facing similar challenges.
Her commitment to this cause is a test testament to the impact red nose has had on her life and the life of many others.
If you're moved by Brad and Felicity's story and want to contribute to this important work, we encourage you to visit Red Nose Australia's website at www.rednose.org dot au. You can learn more about their services, make a donation or find our how you can get involved.
I'll paste the Red Nose website link in the show notes, so scroll down in your podcast app to find it. I love hearing your feedback and comments too. You can send a private and personal email straight to me. The address is johnlittlefair.com dot au dot.
Thank you for listening to this incredibly humbling episode of never just a dog.
