Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: This episode discusses the sensitive topic of child loss, which may be distressing for some listeners.
One of the greatest human tragedies is the sudden unexpected death of a child.
When that death remains unexplained, it is even more devastating for the parents, the family and society at large.
Recently, over a couple of days, I had the absolute privilege of sitting down with Brad and Felicity plain to record their stories individually.
Our guest on this, his first episode is Brad Pillain, who along with his wife Felicity, tragically lost their daughter Grace to sudden unexpected death of a child.
In this episode, Brad will share his story, the profound impact of loss on their lives and how he has found ways to cope and honour Grace's memory.
My name is John little. Fair and welcome to this very special episode of never just a dog.
Brad, awesome for you to join me. This is going to be an incredible conversation.
[00:01:08] Speaker B: Well, thank you for asking and having the bravery to ask me to do it as well. I don't think I've ever been asked to talk about it on a podcast, let alone getting it out there as a story. And hopefully someone listening might take something out of it and be able to live life that little bit better.
[00:01:31] Speaker A: The first question I want to ask is tell me about how you met your wife Felicity.
[00:01:37] Speaker B: How I met Felicity? Okay, well, we were playing.
Well, sorry, I was playing Mick Snapple at Lords Subiaco and friend of a friend brought Felicity down and I thought she was this hot G's shooter and I was just a center. Ran around like a bit of an idiot and I was pretty. I used to be quick. Lost a little bit of that now, but used to give it to her in the D and she used to drain the goals and she's only. You've met her, John. She's not that tall, but she used to drain it from anywhere in the D. I then found out a bit later on that she couldn't see this. See the actual goals. Yeah, she was just throwing it and drowning. It just happened to be. And then we found out in later seasons. Yeah, it was just one of those things. She was able to jag it for a season and it got progressively worse. She. She didn't stay as golf shooter for much longer. Yeah, that's how we met.
[00:02:34] Speaker A: When did you guys get married? Actually, I saw something on your instagram. Has it been 15 years?
[00:02:41] Speaker B: It's not close. 2007?
It'd be 17. Yeah, it'd be 18 next year.
[00:02:48] Speaker A: What's your son's name?
[00:02:50] Speaker B: Jack.
He's 15 and turning 16 this year, actually. So yeah, he's in year ten at the moment, so he's. Yeah, he's a very intelligent young man. Now, I've got to be careful. He's not a boy anymore.
He's taller than me, which isn't much. He's taken over. He got past me this year. So that's an interesting thing for a dad to start looking up at his son's eyes instead of looking down on him. So, yeah, Jack, very proud of him. He's. He's come a long way, and now he's just trying to figure out what he wants to do. You know, year ten, going into year eleven and twelve, figuring out whether he wants to go to uni or whether he doesn't want to go to uni or. And being supportive of that without seeing potential being lost. Cause we think he could do whatever he wants. Yeah, we'll see how he goes.
[00:03:43] Speaker A: Hey, mate. Are you ready to talk about Grace?
Tell me about when she was born.
[00:03:51] Speaker B: She was born in 2016. So we waited quite a long time to think about even having a second child. But with that, we agreed that we'd start trying to have a little sister for Jack. And then Grace came along in May of 2016.
[00:04:11] Speaker A: How did you pick the name Grace? Did you have a few other names and that was the one that stood out?
[00:04:17] Speaker B: Yeah, there was a few, and a few were taken by. By friends or family as well, which over the. Over the years. And obviously, you can't. You just never double up. You don't do that if someone's taking your name, you come from it. I think that was. I'm pretty sure Grace was the name that Felicity really, really wanted.
[00:04:37] Speaker A: It's a gorgeous name.
[00:04:38] Speaker B: It is. And I kind of got Jack as my preference in honor of my grandfather, who passed away just before Jack was born.
[00:04:47] Speaker A: Was your grandfather's name Jack?
[00:04:49] Speaker B: It was John, but his nickname was. Was Jack. Yeah. So that. I guess I was happy to go with that. But we followed the tradition on my side of the family anyway, that the firstborn, depending on male, female or other these days, your name is their middle name. So it's Grace Felicity Palain. But to be named after someone in the family, I think that passes it on for someone further down the track.
[00:05:19] Speaker A: Tell me about Grace. Tell me about her personality.
[00:05:22] Speaker B: She was such a cheeky little kid and quite different to how Jack's personality was. So he was quite a relatively quiet, I shy kid.
Grace was complete opposite. She was in your face, kind of demanding what she wanted, and she got it, generally got what she wanted. To. I mean, she. She only lived to two and a half, but she had a lot of personality for a two and a half year old. And she definitely completed our family.
[00:05:59] Speaker A: What were her first words that you remember? Was it dad or mum?
[00:06:03] Speaker B: Definitely wasn't dad. Yeah, she was. I think both Jack and, and Grace were definitely mum's mummy's boy and girl.
I mean, I. She definitely. When I walked in the door, I was usually working. I was the one working. So Felicity stayed home with them and. Yeah, definitely. It was. It would have been mum, for sure. It definitely works, weren't mumdhouse?
[00:06:28] Speaker A: And I bet you're pretty happy about that anyway.
[00:06:30] Speaker B: Absolutely. Flissy was amazing as a mother. She poured everything into Jack. And then I think she'll have some regrets that she, she felt that she went back to work early for Grace as well.
[00:06:45] Speaker A: Did she go back, like a couple of months after Grace was.
[00:06:49] Speaker B: It was a bit later than that. I think it was around the one year mark. But she's always, I think, felt a bit guilty that she didn't spend more time with her, like with Jack, but I guess financially and in some cases, thinking that you've got all this time in the world that she would be okay. And she ended up going to, I guess, daycare or, you know, toddler care around the corner. Great place. But she just didn't like it. So dropping her off, it was a bit of a trial and tribulation every morning. She just didn't want to go.
[00:07:22] Speaker A: It's tough in life, isn't it, that as much as we'd all like to be doing and sharing and spending more time, but you still have to put food on the table home.
[00:07:31] Speaker B: You do. And there's certain you have plans for life. And sometimes that becomes a bit materialistic. And I think perspective can be changed quite quickly, as it did definitely change for us, for sure.
[00:07:47] Speaker A: Are you okay to talk about the day that grace passed away?
[00:07:50] Speaker B: No, no, I'm okay. I might. I might lose it. Um, I wasn't there, so I was away on, uh, I guess, a fantasy football night. I was just up in the hills in Stoneville. And, um, when I left, she was. She was sleeping, having an afternoon nap. So I guess on the day, I was just keen to get up and hang out with the boys that I hadn't seen for. We only get together once or twice a year.
I think we, as we normally do on these events, we had a few drinks to start with and a bit of a feed. And then I got a phone call at about. I think it was about 08:00 or 830. So I'm up in Stoneville and we live in Karen, up. So a long way from home and not able to drive. So I got the phone call. I had a missed call from Felicity. And I must admit initially I thought, oh, what's, what's that about? Missed the call, tried to ring back and it was engaged. And then eventually got hold of flissy. And all I can remember is flissy saying, she's not breathing, Brad.
And so I'm trying to just process what she's saying and she says, you're not breathing. She hasn't been breathing for a long time. So I said, what's going on? Is the, is the ambulance coming? And I'm trying to understand what she's saying at the same time. I said, the ambos are trying to give a CPR. And I'm like, okay. I'm like, geez, what can you do from when, you know, 50 or 60 ks where you can't do anything?
Trying to think how I can help. And I think it's a bit of a bloke thing today. Well, how can I fix it? I wasn't able to. So I had a bit of. A. Bit of a meltdown there and there. And I'm like, okay, right, she's taken to the hospital now. Can you get there? I'm like, I can't. I can't drive. I'm not. And I'm definitely not in the state to drive at the moment. So one of the guys wife's was just around the corner staying with a friend in Stoneville. And she was able to come around and offer me a lift down to PCH, where Grace was being transferred to.
[00:10:12] Speaker A: So is that Princess Margaret Perth Children's Hospital? Children's hospital, yeah.
[00:10:17] Speaker B: So princess, I think, yeah, it had been opened. The new hospital was open by then, so.
And I, I just remember driving, just I was, I was praying, so. And I promised I'd give up alcohol as well if by some miracle they could save her and make a hole again. But that was a long drive down the hill from Stoneville, down, uh, down great Aston highway, and then getting to, to the uni suburb.
[00:10:57] Speaker A: Netherlands.
[00:10:58] Speaker B: Netherlands. Yeah, that's it. So they kind of left me at the bolted straight in there. And they were like, got me through triage and brought me through and they were obviously giving a CPR. So when I got there, it's hard to say.
Full grown person kind of on top of your daughter trying to pump her chest so.
And they took, you know, trying to take it all in, but that sobers you up pretty quick. So.
And I. At one point, they kind of came over and said, do you want us to keep on going? I said, what are you talking about?
She's not responding. And I said, well, kind of not comprehending what they're saying to me. You're not really kind of absorbing what they're saying.
But I'm just glad at that point, I just said, what do you mean? Well, she's not. She's not breathing by herself. So I said, well, is there a chance? And they said, yes, there is. I said, well, you keep on going until.
Until there's, you know, definitely no hope.
And then at that point, they take you.
They took us away and they put us in a chaplain's room. And then we sat there for I don't know how long. And obviously they were. Continued to perform CPR on her and incubator and all that kind of stuff.
And then she got transferred up to the ICU and we were allowed to go up and kind of be with her. But that was a.
Took her.
Yeah, it was a long time from it. And my memory might not be exactly crystal because it. Yeah, it was a bit foggy and you don't really remember exactly what happens.
But something that came to me afterwards was I wasn't there. I didn't find her. Felicity did.
And the amount of trauma she's probably. She's still dealing with and dealing with. And Jack was here as well.
So to be a dada, I'm not there. I can't do anything.
Yeah, I feel quite a bit of guilt out there, Brad.
[00:13:39] Speaker A: This is just absolutely gut reaching. So Grace is on life support. I understand. And what happened next?
[00:13:48] Speaker B: Well, guess where we're just waiting on, you know, the specialists and the doctors just to give us some kind of indication or hope that she's going to be okay. But you get told she's. She's not responding. And it's amazing how.
Just looks like she was sleeping, to be honest, that she could wake up at any point, but to be then told she's actually got. She's got no brain activity, which is. She was dead at that point. Yeah, I got. I got pretty angry. So I excused myself and had a bit of a moment in the toilets and punched a few things and probably.
Probably broke my. Broke my knuckles in a couple of swats. But I think when you told that, and you gotta.
I get guest prepared to say goodbye and try to tell family members that it's what's happened and then deal with what's happened and then you've got to explain. And that's the hardest thing. Yeah.
You don't know.
You don't know what's happened, so.
And we still don't. So over the course of the next 24.
24 hours, family come in, say goodbye to her.
[00:15:28] Speaker A: Did the coroner come in and talk to you as well?
[00:15:33] Speaker B: Yeah, that started. Yeah, once we actually turned off their life support.
Yeah. They were basically there waiting.
It felt like they were in the room within 30 minutes of us turning, like, saying goodbye to her, which they're just, in hindsight, they're doing their job, but, yeah, you feel like they think that you killed your daughter.
We had just. She just left the room and they were outside her room waiting and they came in and. God bless.
There's a. They have an advocate for you. They allocate, especially in this time, from the hospital. And she pleaded with the coroner, the best detectives, to not. Do we have to do it tonight?
They said, yeah, we do.
All right, let's get it over and done with. But the process itself, John, is just.
It still makes me pretty angry.
And any grief research will tell you your brain doesn't remember. You can't recall that kind of stuff anyway, let alone getting questioned on it. And I know they need to keep themselves independent because they're, you know, there's a possibility that we might have been involved in a death.
It's just a horrible process, but again, it's apparently the process of any sudden death.
[00:17:24] Speaker A: So in the days following grace passing away, what did that feel like and look like for you and Felicity and for your son?
[00:17:39] Speaker B: Ours. Numbness, to be honest, just kind of sat there, like, literally thinking that she's just going to come running out of her room. Yeah. Thinking she's just going to run around the corner at any moment.
And then you realize that she's not. Not here anymore.
Shut down. Yeah, I think kind of just.
I was just staying up. You can't sleep, or you try to sleep, but you can't sleep.
Just looking for anything that can make you feel better, but nothing does. So.
Spent a lot of time just binging tv just to get a escape, just to switch the brain off because the brain's just totally circling back to the one thing that, you know, you just lost your daughter. So.
And Felicity, definitely, her comment was, lucky Jack's alive. So. So I think she went there straight away.
I've had a few friends and friends that have taken their own life. So I'm you know, it definitely. It crosses your mind just to put an end to it, but, yeah, it's. Sorry. Yeah, it's putting the end to the pain, to be honest. The heartache and the. And the longing just to hug your little girl again.
[00:19:13] Speaker A: How did your friends support you after Grace passed away?
[00:19:19] Speaker B: It's funny because some friends don't know how to help you. So some of them, they'll go into. They have to do something. So food just rocked up on our doorstep, left Ron center, and I love everyone's thoughts and providing that, but there's only so much lasagna you can eat. But some of it was really awesome food, but, yeah, it was enough lasagna to sink a battleship. But then there were others that stayed back because they didn't know how to talk to us about it. And to be honest, until you lose a child, you really don't know how to relate. And when you get someone trying to relate, sometimes, yeah, you gotta. That initial period was hard because they were trying to bring that back to how they felt. And it was like, well, our daughter just passed away. I think they're trying to. They're trying to make you feel better by not. Not a fix, just because you're not alone. Like, they're saying you're not alone, but it's. It's a different loss. And you can't compare loss, but you do.
[00:20:55] Speaker A: What kind of resources or support networks did you find most helpful in coping and staying afloat with your loss of growth?
[00:21:06] Speaker B: I think your immediate family definitely makes a big difference. So I know Felicity's mum, my mum, were just trying to help us any way they can. Mum stayed with us for a couple of weeks and just did the basics. You know, the.
Did the washing, did the. And I think that's how they show love, right? They. By looking after you. And we had close friends. Mark and Vicki were amazing. They kind of took the. I guess, the brunt of not necessarily just communicating with the greater friend circle. I've got a lot of friends, so just trying to centralize any kind of offers of help or feet or, you know, flowers. They just. They coordinated that for us, which was amazing help. And that was the immediate kind of help. I mean, there was counseling offered through the coroner's office, but immediately the advocate for Perth Children's Hospital, she was amazing. She took Jack to kind of select a soft toy or something that could be taken away with Grace, but also gave him something. And he actually took a doll and he. It was Gracie doll, so he kind of kept that with him. And then had a sloth for Grace because he.
She loves sloths anyway, so. And that was her kind of. That was a great support mechanism as well. For me personally, I think it was my mates that kind of tried to help as much as possible. Yeah.
[00:22:50] Speaker A: Yeah. What was the best help that a mate did? You just listening or food or a beer?
[00:22:55] Speaker B: Yeah, probably food and beer. I do recall the guys just. We just went to Wembley driving range and just hit some balls and just had a feed and a beer. And not to excess, but. Because at times I definitely want to hit it a bit hard than I should have. So that was a coping mechanism, I think, which is not a good one, because there was something later that came obviously through the sids that I definitely want to make mention of. Because what's interesting is eventually the patient advocate that was at PCH, she was amazing. I can't recall, I know Felicity or no name, like straight off top of head, but she suggested or provided us eventually. When we're ready, then SIDS, red nose, basically. So. And a lot of people don't realize that even though Grace was two and a half, she was classed as a SIDS.
[00:23:54] Speaker A: Deaf SIDS, for anyone listening is sudden infant death syndrome.
[00:23:58] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:23:59] Speaker A: I.
[00:23:59] Speaker B: So. Which. And I. I know again, Felicity all have the.
There's another term for when the child's slightly older, but it's the same. It's exactly the same term, but a different. Different acronym.
So eventually we. We went to red nose and it's a totally free service, which is absolutely amazing as a.
I couldn't rate it higher for someone that's lost a child, be it young, preborn or whatever, just a great service that's done free and it's unlimited, which is just. Don't get that kind of offer anywhere else for counseling. Initially it was a group session, but then they also saw me, Felicity and Jack separately, so. And that was a. Same counsellor, Claire. And she was amazing. She's absolute.
Yeah. I've never come across someone that can.
We used to call it the Clare pause. And she would just pause and you could sit there for 1015 minutes, not say a word.
But in some cases, she'll just sit there.
She would literally not even ask a leading question and just wait.
And that was okay. That the person that's not within your circle to openly say whatever you feel without being judged or feeling like you're going to upset someone else either, or talk about other stuff that might have been happening at the same time with work or the like. You know, it all came out in that session and we were there because of losing grace. But I guess everything else that happens in life is still impacting you and can exacerbate the grief as well. So.
[00:26:10] Speaker A: Brad, there is another member of your family that I want to ask you about. Your dog, Maggie.
[00:26:16] Speaker B: Maggie, she's multi shih tzu cross. And we got her as a puppy, and she's just become the fifth member of the family. And so we've become parents. And this basically to a third child.
She was. She's so cheeky. She's the total master of our house. She tells us what to do, not the other way around. Sometimes I think I might be the leader of the pack, but I think maybe she's definitely the leader above Felicity, that's for sure. She tells Felicity what to do, and Felicity loves it as well. It just gave Jack someone else to love in the house. I mean, he was a big brother, and now he's a big brother again. But I. Felicity had to push hard to get a dog.
I wasn't keen on it. Just knowing, having a family dog growing up, it's quite a big commitment. But Maggie's. Yeah, she gets us going every day and we get out and about with her and that, and that. Mentally, just having that responsibility. If you don't take that dog for a walk, she'll drive you nuts. And it just gets you out of the house. Just makes you feel. Feel like you have a purpose and someone else to worry about. She's an awesome, awesome little dog. Yeah. I must admit, I'm glad we ended up getting her.
[00:27:52] Speaker A: Brad, you mentioned earlier that I was brave to ask you to talk about the loss of grace on the podcast. And that's incredibly humbling for you to say that. But, mate, you're the brave one for sharing so openly. If it's okay, I have one last question for you.
After the devastating loss of your daughter Grace, how do you now approach life?
[00:28:16] Speaker B: There's definitely a quote that is, growing old is a privilege, not a right. And just to explain that a little bit is don't take advantage of the fact that you are alive or you have others around you that are alive. Live in the moment always, because it can change in the blink of an eye. And I think a lot of people don't appreciate that. And I will put my hand up. I was one of those people. I just didn't know how good I had it.
So that's definitely one of those terms that both Felicity and I now live by.
[00:28:58] Speaker A: We sincerely thank Brad for courageously sharing his deep emotions and experience with the loss of his daughter Grace.
If anything discussed today has raised concerns, please reach out for medical help or talk to a professional.
In our next episode, I have the privilege of sitting down with Brad's wife, Felicity. She shares her own experiences and insights in the wake of their loss of grace.
My name is John Littlefair and thank you for tuning into this incredibly touching episode of never just a dog.
