Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to never just a dog. I'm your host, John Littlefair, and in today's episode, I'm joined by Anne Marie Farage Smith, who is a licensed mental health counsellor and the founder of the Rochester Centre for Pet Grief and Loss. With a background in mental health counselling and education, Annemarie brings a wealth of experience to our conversation. Her book, Healing Wisdom for Pet Loss, offers a comprehensive guide for those grappling with the profound pain of losing a cherished animal companion. Annemarie's work not only helps readers understand the deep bond they share with their pets, but also provides invaluable insights into the grieving process that follows a loss.
By exploring the complexities of pet loss, she offers practical strategies for finding, healing, and solace in the aftermath.
Join us as we delve into the emotional landscape of pet loss, uncovering the unique challenges it presents, and exploring the ways in which our pets leave an indelible mark on our lives.
It's so great for you to join me, Ambery. How are you doing?
[00:01:20] Speaker B: I'm fine, thank you.
[00:01:23] Speaker A: I was fortunate to be sent a copy of your book from your publicist before the worldwide launch, and I love it.
[00:01:31] Speaker B: I certainly appreciate it. John.
[00:01:34] Speaker A: Hey, look, I do want to explore more about your book, but firstly, I'm fascinated by your career in mental health counseling. Is this something that you've pursued all your life?
[00:01:44] Speaker B: Yeah, this is my second career. I guess you could say second, maybe third, but we'll go with second.
I used to be a teacher. I originally went for a bachelor's degree in education way back. And, you know, I taught for several years. I used to work in recreation as a recreation director.
So I did that, too. And then back in 2007, I decided to go back to college for another master's degree, and I went for mental health counseling back when I was going for my bachelor's, I remember going down the street, there was this big pharmacy with a, also a bookstore.
And I used to love to walk down there from the college and just look at the books because I love books in general. And I don't know, I was always drawn to the books about mental health. And I started having interest, I don't know, probably then, maybe sooner. It's always kind of, I think, living in me.
So I was thinking, what can I do for my second career?
I said, hmm, I think I'll try out that area that I've always kind of been interested in. It kind of goes along with education, too, working with people and so on. So that's what I did. It was a two year program. I really, really loved it.
And so that's what I did when I graduated, got my own private practice over the years. Then I honed it down to pet grief and loss. I still do, you know, see people with other concerns, but my interest, my main interest right now, my passion is pet grief and loss counseling.
[00:03:31] Speaker A: I know you're a lifelong dog lover. Is it because of life and love with and losing dogs that you decided to hone down on pet loss, grief counselling in particular?
[00:03:42] Speaker B: Well, it was because of that, but also because, you know, I was just doing a lot of reading and finding out that it seemed to be a loss that wasn't really recognized in our society.
And, you know, that was very concerning to me. And, you know, I said, I think it's important to address this issue, you know, and not make people feel shameful about it or like, no one believes them, no one understands. And so those are the responses I got from people was like, Anne Marie, you really get this.
But it was like, you know, little by little, it grew and word got around and people were calling me and, you know, I just lost my pet. Can I come and talk to you? And so word of mouth got around, and, you know, it just something I felt there was a very big need for. And it was being like, not really recognizing our society.
[00:04:46] Speaker A: What are the constant and repeating comments and concerns you get from your clients?
[00:04:51] Speaker B: Clients voice that? Like, they would say, well, someone said, get over. It was just a dog, or, you know, you should be over this by now. And it's like, that's totally untrue. I mean, each dog, each whatever your pet is, cat, dog is unique, you know, and you're not replaceable because I also hear from people who do say they have a lot of support for this loss, and people are understanding. So I have that, too, on one end. But the disturbing part, obviously, is when I hear things like, you know, and they're really beside their self with grief that no one seems to understand it and fully, you know, fully get it. I think that's the only way I could say fully get it. And they've, like, shut down and they don't even want to go to work the next day because they're afraid they're going to have an outburst of crying. And they did. Some people have experienced this, and the employer, you know, they're not taking any time off of work, and their employees are kind of saying, well, what's wrong with you today? You seem kind of sad. And they're afraid to share that. They're sad because they just, you know, had their dog euthanized or dog is really sick or, you know, they wish they could be with them because they're afraid they might die before they get home. So I hear that too. I hear both sides of it. But I think it's just our societies in general don't. They're confused on how to react to grief and they don't want to talk about, they don't want to like express themselves fully. They want to always kind of COVID up their, their true feelings.
[00:06:34] Speaker A: What I believe is a lot of people don't know what to say.
[00:06:39] Speaker B: Yeah, that's really true. What you're saying, John, it's the words, the words are so important. Kind of thinking about what you're saying and maybe say, I don't think that's a good thing to say, but maybe I could say this instead. Like, I understand, you know, I never had a pet. You could say if you didn't never had a pet. But I can imagine that must be a really difficult loss because the pets with you, you know, all day and it's a companion and you share a lot with, you know, your dog or your cat. So just trying to understand, even if you don't fully understand, you try to understand by listening to the other person and trying to be in their shoes. I think that's helpful. But because a lot of people, they do mean well, a lot of people, they just don't choose the right words or take the time to learn about it, maybe read about it. Like, there's some in my book that talks about some of the words to say instead of it was just a dog or something.
[00:07:40] Speaker A: I'm so keen to hear about the beginning of your book and beginning to write your book. Was this inspired by the work you do now or inspired by the loss of your dog? Wishbone, don't.
[00:07:52] Speaker B: It was just like there was something, I don't know, something deep inside of me just kind of vibrated like, you know, and I thought about doing, writing this book, like off and on, maybe over some of the years, later years. And then we had the COVID you know, with the shutdown.
And I just started, I mean, what I, what I started writing was like nothing that came out now because it's grown so much, the book, so it was something that was kind of, I don't know, I just felt like it was inside of me and it had to come out. And then, you know, wishbone dying, he had doggy dementia and, oh, we just love him the pieces, but.
So it was a combination of things. There was one thing, though, that happened when I was a child.
Yeah, I mentioned in my book, too. His name was Skippy, and Skippy was my aunt's dog.
And, you know, we used to go over and visit her, and I would see Skippy. He would come out of down the driveway, like, to meet me. I was a little tight, maybe about four years old, maybe five. And, oh, my God, I just love that dog. And one time we went to visit, and Skippy wasn't there.
And I was like, I don't recall if I asked where he was. I probably did, but I certainly wondered where he was, and I never found out. Apparently, he must have died about maybe a year ago.
Really old pictures. And there was a picture, two pictures of me and Skippy. I'm, like, bent down and petting him. It was like. And it all kind of came back to me.
[00:09:41] Speaker A: And what an incredible bond we have with our dogs.
[00:09:43] Speaker B: We have this bond with them. I mean, they are a part of our. The structure of our day. I mean, you know, they're with us all day. You know, whether we're home or not, it's still going to be in our, in our day. Like, we get up to them, we go to bed to them in the middle of the day, they're with us, or the early evening, whatever, depending on when you're home. But they are a big part of our daily life, our routine, our structure. And they bring a lot of structure to our life. Like, okay, maybe your dog likes to get fed before you go to work. If you go out to work, maybe your dog, you know, stays in the house or goes to a doggy daycare center or something. You know, whatever the structure is, it's, you know, a routine, and you get used to it. And they get used to it. And when you don't have that anymore because they passed, I mean, it's like a huge void.
The thing is, you know, they, they don't ask for a lot. You know, obviously, there's the physical needs. They have the food, the water, but they just want to be with us. You know, they, they, they just want to spend time with us. At least that's what my experience has been with any dogs in my life or people that have talked to me. You know, they're just pure, unconditional love, and they're not judging you.
[00:11:09] Speaker A: You mention in your book about finding support, and this is so important. And I want to elaborate on this.
Sometimes it can come from a friend or a family member.
And sometimes you have to seek someone outside of that circle, a professional.
[00:11:29] Speaker B: Absolutely. Thanks for sharing that with me, John. Yeah, that's the thing.
I know I talk about in my book that there are going to be some people that you encounter that are not going to be helpful to you on your journey of grief. In fact, they can cause you to feel completely invalidated in your grief, which is very difficult. So I believe what I say in the book is that if you see that going on, if you feel that going on and you are experiencing it, it's best not to share some things with those people. And that's perfectly okay, because everybody, for whatever reason, like you said, you alluded to that, that sometimes they don't know, we don't know what's going on in somebody else's life. We don't fully understand, maybe. And so that just means you just go to somebody else who can validate your grief.
[00:12:34] Speaker A: How would people find a therapist such as you, that they just lost their dog and. Or their cat or the pet?
[00:12:41] Speaker B: Okay. There's several ways I get referrals from different veterinarian practices, and one in particular that we have here that's emergency veterinarian center. And so obviously, they get a lot of, you know, serious injuries from dogs, that maybe they get hit by a car or they've escaped from the backyard and they ran away. They can't find them. So there's grief right there that's can turn into an ambiguous loss where you don't know what happened to your dog, you might never find out what happened to your dog. So I get referrals from them. They will send me an email or give me a phone call or give my name to a client that comes in for services.
Then, of course, the local vets, mine in particular, she recommends me to anybody that is having a higher level of difficulty dealing with an euthanasia when they brought their dog in. So it'd be, you know, through different vets.
Also, I have Rochester center for grief, which is. There's a website for it. You can, anybody can find my name under. All you have to Google is pet grief and loss. Rochester or just pet grief and loss. And I come up and then it tells you how to contact me. The phone number, the email. So then I get emails, phone calls from people asking for assistance.
And the person will contact me, generally by phone or email. And then I set up a brief meeting with them over the phone, and we talk for like, 1015 minutes. It's free. And, you know, I find out what their concern is I see if I can help them. So they tell me what's going on briefly, and then I let them know that I can be of help to them if I can. And if not, I refer them to somebody else. And then they decide they want to make a formal visit with me. So then I get their information, like their email, and I send them through the computer, through this program which is set up for mental health counselors.
I send them a link where they can get my paperwork to fill out and they can pay for the session online.
So they can do that all through this program.
And so then I get their paperwork directly back through the computer.
Then we set up a meeting. A session. I send them a link to that and then they go onto the platform just like we did, basically. And we have our session in the book. In one of the chapters, it talks about, okay, I'm having a lot of difficulty with this grief. And if you're concerned that maybe it's turned into a complicated grief, you know, it tells you some signs to look for. So how do I contact somebody that can help me, a professional? So I go through how you can find a mental health counselor that specifies dealing with grief, some steps on how to find one, how to go about doing that, and so that's in the book as well.
[00:16:12] Speaker A: How's the best way for someone to use your book, Anne Marie?
[00:16:17] Speaker B: Being an animal lover's guide to grief? So when you, you know, see the table of contents, part of that is the one part where it says how to use this book.
I, you know, the book, you know, was really a process that toward the very end I thought, you know, I think I like the idea of what if somebody right now picks up this book and they're dealing with anticipating the loss of their dog. So what I suggested in the book was don't read this book from COVID to cover. It might not, it might be right for you at a certain time. But like right now you're dealing with, you just got this diagnosis from the vet. You know, your dog has got some terminal cancer and maybe they're feeling only be a couple more months, you know, for your dog to live, possibly with some medication to ease the pain if there is pain and so on and so forth. So, like, jump into, you know, this is a guidebook. So jump into the part about anticipatory grief. Read that first. So don't, don't start in the beginning. And then you're feeling like, wow, I just, I'm so broken hearted with this loss. So, like, right now, you need to go to taking care of yourself and doing some of the exercises, the suggestions in there. So jump around. And to me, this is like having this book on your bookshelf. So right now, the pet you have, you know, you're going through the anticipatory grief, but then maybe after some day when, you know, your pet does pass on, and then maybe you might want to start with the history of the bond and understanding why we have this deep bond and about the healing companionship of pets. So it's a nice book to put on your bookshelf. Keep it for as long as you're going to be a pet owner.
[00:18:27] Speaker A: Now, my favorite personal elements within your book are the reflective writing experiences. And then you give suggestions on certain topics. You break it down. I found that fantastic. So it actually allows people at their stage and at their timeline to sit down and write, almost sensing, like, journaling.
[00:18:47] Speaker B: Yep.
Only you give them the guidelines. Little more deeper guidelines specifically related to the loss of the pet.
Writing can be very therapeutic, as well as other things, like creative, creative things. You know, drawing, painting, you don't have to be. It's not about being an artist, because people always, when I mention some of these creative ideas, they think, well, I don't know how to draw. I don't know how to paint. It's not about. Not about, you know, creating a Picasso by any means. I mean, it's just the rhythm of, like, in the beauty of the colors. Like, for example, watercolors, you know, and taking a brush and how they just flow the colors and making them mix. It's just, you just. Your mind relaxes. You know, I love to do artistic things, and when I send somebody a greeting card, I like to decorate the outside of the envelope.
At one time, I was doing it, and I was just fancy, you know, I could do fancy writing and colored pens and, you know, draw little things. And so I was decorating it, and all of a sudden I realized, whoa, what's the postal worker gonna think when they see this?
[00:20:07] Speaker A: You know?
[00:20:08] Speaker B: And I just got so immersed in it, I think, I don't know, ten minutes went by, and it was like I just felt so relaxed.
[00:20:16] Speaker A: My favorite part of the book. One. Write a letter to your dog.
Get your dog to write a letter to you.
I have heard about write a letter to your dog, but get your dog to write a letter to you. Is that something you've done yourself?
[00:20:32] Speaker B: I don't know. Tell you the truth, if I. It was a combination of maybe something I read someplace else maybe.
Maybe it was talking about general grief for a loved one, a human, as opposed to a dog. And maybe I just kind of said, well, I could have the dog right to you, you know? So I'm not totally sure if I. It was probably something I kind of read and tweaked it, maybe, but I thought it was a good idea. And I even had some. I think I have a couple prompts, maybe, of what you could, your dog might say to you, like, wow, you've been such a great pet owner. I love playing ball with you. I love going to the beach with you. Thank you for taking me to those places and give me that special treat of cheese and peanut butter or whatever.
You know, my mind, I don't know, my mind just goes off to when I, when I see something, it's hard to explain. Like, I go, oh, I think I can make something with that or, you know, be something creative with that.
[00:21:34] Speaker A: Anne Marie, I can't thank you enough for joining me today, and I can't.
[00:21:39] Speaker B: Thank you enough for this opportunity. I really appreciate it, John. And because this book means a lot to me. It's been a labor of love, and I'm very passionate about it. And my goal is to help other people through this loss. I just kind of feel like that's really my mission right now in my life. In different parts of our life, we have different missions, I think, or purposes. And right now, this is like a huge purpose in my life. And I'm really glad to do it. And I'm really glad to have the opportunity to be on your podcast. I appreciate it so much.
[00:22:17] Speaker A: If you or someone you know is struggling with the loss of a pet, I highly recommend picking up a copy of healing wisdom for pet loss. It's a comprehensive guide designed to help you understand and process your grief. I'll include details in the show notes within your podcast app to connect with me. My email address is johnlittlefair.com dot au dot thank you again for joining us today. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, leave us a review and share it with others who might benefit from Anne Marie's wisdom.
My name is John Littlefair and thank you for listening to this episode of never just a dog.
